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Pending Holy Roman Empire War on Pomerania

BLUE_JEDI

Member
Apr 10, 2020
31
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Attacking nation:
(The Duchy of Prussia and their overlord Westburg-Brabant)

Defending nation:
Pomerania

Casus belli:

The Prussians have tried to enter into talks with the Pomeranian nobles to get a long and try make a possible deal that will benefit both parties regarding the Wisla river. But the Pomeranians have refused to enter negotiations or to even consider them. Nevertheless their failure to collaborate with the Prussians and the Empire have led to strained relations and with the decleration of an Ultimatum to the Pomeranians to give up land bordering the Wisla river as they wouldn't want to speak face to face about a settlement of the dispute,

The only solution it seems is to take these lands by force and punish the Pomeranians. The Pomeranians are halting the spread of catholicism in the region and a majority of their populus are pagan. They have also not sent any aid to the Pope in regards of men or money for the crusade against the muslims, which merly is a point in proving that they are not catholic by heart. The Empire needs to conquer these lands and convert the people by any means necessary as the pomeranians are clearly unfit to do so.

In addition, Boleslaw II of Poland also canvassed the Luticians for joining an anti-German coalition with Denmark. As a consequence, Lutician military power was completely exhausted in the course of the 11th century. In 1093, Helmold of Bosau reported that among others the Luticians, Pomeranians and Rani had to pay tribute to Obodrite prince Henry. These yearly tributes have not been payed for as long as it can be rememberd and Pomerania need to get put back in place.

War goal: (What you seek out of this war declaration)




Lands in black be annexed by Prussia and some given to the duchy of Pomerania. (not to be confused with the nation we're attacking, it's the hre pomerania)

Requested date and time for the first battle: (When you would like the first battle to ensue)
TBD,

Attacking and defending nation's members: (Attach a screenshot of the output of the following commands: '/f who <attacking nation>', "/f who <defending nation>")





1691




Starting soldiers: (Which players will be participating in the war)

Svedzko, Gamer_Titan, St_Seus, Oliverpanda, Everyweekend, Jasonhz, BLUE_JEDI​
 
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Radiantal

Roleplay Coordinator
Staff member
Roleplay Coordinator
Oct 1, 2019
150
91
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1596


Pagans Rally Against the War!

As a war between the Holy Roman Empire and Pomerania draws closer, pagans throughout Pomerania, Poland, the Holy Roman Empire, and nearby regions have begun to rally against the war! In the Holy Roman Empire, pagans have organized in protest, while few in numbers, they have begun to rally support from outside the empire, even convincing some of the non-pagan citizens who are against the war to join them. In Pomerania, many citizens rally against the HRE, many willing to help fight in the cause, however about half of them instead rally to give the HRE what they initially requested in their ultimatum, creating a defined split in pro-defence and pro-peace protesters. Finally, in Poland and nearby areas, many people begin to rally on Pomerania’s side, many hoping to drive foreign involvement into the war, however with most nations run by Christians, they instead look to Pomerania in how they can assist.



For Pomerania:

Possible responses to internal protests include:



Perhaps we could try to make a compromise, we must stop these protests before they turn violent!

Efforts are made to discourage protesting of any kind, this discouragement leads to neither side having any significant protests.



The Pro-Defense Protesters are correct! We have a right to protect our territory from those warmongers!

This appeases the Pro-defense protesters, which increases war support within the nation. However, pro-peace protests continue, leading to unrest in parts of the population.



The Pro-Peace Protesters are correct! We should try to cool the situation before an all-out war is upon us!

The HRE gets event ‘Pomerania offers Peace!’ in which you offer the land initially requested in the ultimatum. This upsets the Pro-defense protesters. However, should the HRE deny your offer for peace, protesters will all unite under the pro-defence protests.




Response to Foreign Protests in Poland and Nearby areas

Possible responses to internal protests include:



Rally them in Pomerania! Let them spread support for our war!

Many of the outside protesters join the Pro-defense protesters in Pomerania, who spread support for the war throughout.


Rally them into small Militia forces! They shall help in the war!

Many of the outside protesters join the war as volunteer forces, however, they are under-equipped and under-supplied for war.



Rally them across the Baltic! Perhaps they could rally foreign intervention on our side!

A randomly chosen Baltic nation gets an event called ‘Pagan population protests for support of Pomerania!’ (Though they can deny this)


( Please big congrats and thanks to Swiss for writing this post. For all wondering why she's allowed to make such events: she is on a trial period for RP-Coordinator)

1598
 
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redmantoo2

Active member
Apr 1, 2020
161
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This seems heavily biased against Pomerania as why would it be a 50/50 split? If you have reasoning I'd like to hear
Edit: Not heavily biased but still seems like it fucks Pomeriania over who is already the underdog
 

SwissNeutrality

Roleplay Coordinator
Staff member
Roleplay Coordinator
Apr 4, 2020
100
62
28
This seems heavily biased against Pomerania as why would it be a 50/50 split? If you have reasoning I'd like to hear
Edit: Not heavily biased but still seems like it fucks Pomeriania over who is already the underdog
This literally is supporting the pomeranians, they have the oppertunity to not only rally support internally, but also gain voulenteer forces, the pagans rallying against the war means they're rallying against the HRE declaring, not against pomerania who is the defender.
 
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redmantoo2

Active member
Apr 1, 2020
161
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From my understanding if Pomerania was to go defensive it would have the pro peace protestors angered by go peaceful pro defense is upset and if he chooses neither he gets no buffs against HRE. Leaving it up to outside intervention.
 
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Cocohop

Active member
Apr 16, 2020
135
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43
From my understanding if Pomerania was to go defensive it would have the pro peace protestors angered by go peaceful pro defense is upset and if he chooses neither he gets no buffs against HRE. Leaving it up to outside intervention.
Response to Foreign Protests in Poland and Nearby areas
Read this section , a direct buff.
 

dropibus

Member
Mar 30, 2020
64
72
18
Well, I do agree with redmantoo2 on how this is heavily biased against Pomerania. This week @SwissNeutrality joined the heated 'discussion' with olivierpanda, choo against me about my absence - saying that I should have stepped up because of a two week validated absence. However, I will not elaborate on your credibility any further @SwissNeutrality and I will substantively discuss your event.


In response to the RP event by SwissNeutrality

First of all, I am sad that staff appointed an amateur RP-coordinator to a quite important ongoing conflict. This week I spoke moderator olivierpanda and I told him that if the staff team is going to bungle the conflict with any amateur roleplay and powerful gaming I most likely will unconditionally surrender or leave this be and allow a Seljuk-Jerusalem server event occur. I will only do this if Poland unanimously stands behind my decision - because Pomerania should be rightful part of Poland. Has this reached the staff team via olivierpanda? ..it almost seems the importance of overall consistency is in lack on purpose!

Now I will substantively summerize on why this is amateur-ish

1. This totally does not align with the Zeitgeist of the 12th century, this is directly against the roleplay etiquette;

a. How can the serfs even know the war declaration and ultimatum if they are illiterate and thus can't read any documents that are exchanged between the nobles? And if they eavesdrop conversations between nobles inside a castle, then why would there even be 50% division among the people if it are the knights and indirectly nobles that offer them protection against barbarians (people of germanic origin, that afflicted the slavs for centuries)?


b. The pagans, in contrast to serfs, would oh very certainly not even doubt to be against their own warlords because the germanic people afflicted them for centuries aswell but most importantly the difference in faith will make them oppose any barbarian faith very definitely. In general, all people in practice stood behind their rulers in feudality, this is not a modern society where the nipples are free! - it is the MEDIEVAL TIME

c. What are protestors? what are demonstrations? is that what you do in order to get massacred with your fellow brothers with a controversial opinions to the rulership and nation your ancestors have contributed to for ages? Demonstrations and protestors didn't really exist in backward countries because this really started in civilized nations where people can be literate thus can have a political stance.

3. The few nobility cannot rally their serfs to pick one side of either because all nobles would never support a foreign power to have claims on THEIR familial demesne. They would virtually be guaranteed to stand behind the Duke of Pomerania even if he is absent and therefore cannot respond to an ultimatum. (note: there only are about three houses and rest is tribal).

4. Holy Roman Empire NEVER declared war on the Duchy of Pomerania. Nor did any joint noblemen of multiple duchies. It is the suzerain of Westburg-Brabant's demesne that has duchy of
Prussia in his personal demesne and then declared on the Duchy of Pomerania. The fact that they called in expeditionary forces (that are independent partisans really according to the posts and do not represent any nation in the HRE) understripes that Pomerania can do this aswell without the requirement of a RP event.

5. The roleplay, ultimatum and war declaration should be voided if the staff team persuades path with consistency, tolerance to her community in times where education should be prioritized above entertainment. I wonder if this is either a backstab to me personally or the entire community. Just permanently banish me from the kingdom of ruin in advance if you plan to subordinate me.

Because of the above reasons I discourage SwissNeutrality becoming RP-coordinator. I am sad that Radiantal impulsively posted her work without taking a close look on it; he is suitable for his position but please staff, reconsider my suggestion where I called out to internally adapt the roleplay policy. (really, this was not to antagonize any of you and the fact some portray me as troll is absolute bullshit)

1603

To add, I wish to have all roleplay during my absence voided because mainly:
1. R4 meta gaming (my ooc absence was used in roleplay to declare war on me, there were not any motives for war before the absence, really, any historical casus belli is not a motive to use it) 2. R3 power gaming (unfair advantage svedzko in relative to me, I had no time to respond to any of the roleplay post and ultimatum and therefore the war declaration should be invalid)

and this, but if the server is geopolitical then this invoke on rules is invalid:
3. R2 inappriorite roleplay
(common sense, rp posts fabricated to war while there in reality are no motives for expansionism. there is no rivalry and is no reason to even mind this land because it is so backward) 4. R1 roleplay etiquette intertwined with fail-rp there are no reason for expansionism and colonialism in the 12th century, war should be easy to have between two civilized nations but there is no reason to put effort in backward Pomerania the land of woods, witches etc. with a duke that speaks German and tries to christianize)
 
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Cocohop

Active member
Apr 16, 2020
135
109
43
Well, I do agree with redmantoo2 on how this is heavily biased against Pomerania. This week @SwissNeutrality joined the heated 'discussion' with olivierpanda, choo against me about my absence - saying that I should have stepped up because of a two week validated absence. However, I will not elaborate on your credibility any further @SwissNeutrality and I will substantively discuss your event.

In response to the RP event by SwissNeutrality

First of all, I am sad that staff appointed an amateur RP-coordinator to a quite important ongoing conflict. This week I spoke moderator olivierpanda and I told him that if the staff team is going to bungle the conflict with any amateur roleplay and powerful gaming I most likely will unconditionally surrender or leave this be and allow a Seljuk-Jerusalem server event occur. I will only do this if Poland unanimously stands behind my decision - because Pomerania should be rightful part of Poland. Has this reached the staff team via olivierpanda? ..it almost seems the importance of overall consistency is in lack on purpose!
Both I and Radiantal had a look at this event and we both approved of it. If you're upset that "an amateur Roleplay coordinator" posted this, imagine that I posted it and ignore the fact that Swiss did. Thank you.

EDIT: Moreover, thank you for your concerns, please reply to the event in RP choosing two options to the two events that you have.
 

SwissNeutrality

Roleplay Coordinator
Staff member
Roleplay Coordinator
Apr 4, 2020
100
62
28
Well, I do agree with redmantoo2 on how this is heavily biased against Pomerania. This week @SwissNeutrality joined the heated 'discussion' with olivierpanda, choo against me about my absence - saying that I should have stepped up because of a two week validated absence. However, I will not elaborate on your credibility any further @SwissNeutrality and I will substantively discuss your event.


In response to the RP event by SwissNeutrality

First of all, I am sad that staff appointed an amateur RP-coordinator to a quite important ongoing conflict. This week I spoke moderator olivierpanda and I told him that if the staff team is going to bungle the conflict with any amateur roleplay and powerful gaming I most likely will unconditionally surrender or leave this be and allow a Seljuk-Jerusalem server event occur. I will only do this if Poland unanimously stands behind my decision - because Pomerania should be rightful part of Poland. Has this reached the staff team via olivierpanda? ..it almost seems the importance of overall consistency is in lack on purpose!

Now I will substantively summerize on why this is amateur-ish

1. This totally does not align with the Zeitgeist of the 12th century, this is directly against the roleplay etiquette;

a. How can the serfs even know the war declaration and ultimatum if they are illiterate and thus can't read any documents that are exchanged between the nobles? And if they eavesdrop conversations between nobles inside a castle, then why would there even be 50% division among the people if it are the knights and indirectly nobles that offer them protection against barbarians (people of germanic origin, that afflicted the slavs for centuries)?


b. The pagans, in contrast to serfs, would oh very certainly not even doubt to be against their own warlords because the germanic people afflicted them for centuries aswell but most importantly the difference in faith will make them oppose any barbarian faith very definitely. In general, all people in practice stood behind their rulers in feudality, this is not a modern society where the nipples are free! - it is the MEDIEVAL TIME

c. What are protestors? what are demonstrations? is that what you do in order to get massacred with your fellow brothers with a controversial opinions to the rulership and nation your ancestors have contributed to for ages? Demonstrations and protestors didn't really exist in backward countries because this really started in civilized nations where people can be literate thus can have a political stance.

3. The few nobility cannot rally their serfs to pick one side of either because all nobles would never support a foreign power to have claims on THEIR familial demesne. They would virtually be guaranteed to stand behind the Duke of Pomerania even if he is absent and therefore cannot respond to an ultimatum. (note: there only are about three houses and rest is tribal).

4. Holy Roman Empire NEVER declared war on the Duchy of Pomerania. Nor did any joint noblemen of multiple duchies. It is the suzerain of Westburg-Brabant's demesne that has duchy of
Prussia in his personal demesne and then declared on the Duchy of Pomerania. The fact that they called in expeditionary forces (that are independent partisans really according to the posts and do not represent any nation in the HRE) understripes that Pomerania can do this aswell without the requirement of a RP event.

5. The roleplay, ultimatum and war declaration should be voided if the staff team persuades path with consistency, tolerance to her community in times where education should be prioritized above entertainment. I wonder if this is either a backstab to me personally or the entire community. Just permanently banish me from the kingdom of ruin in advance if you plan to subordinate me.

Because of the above reasons I discourage SwissNeutrality becoming RP-coordinator. I am sad that Radiantal impulsively posted her work without taking a close look on it; he is suitable for his position but please staff, reconsider my suggestion where I called out to internally adapt the roleplay policy. (really, this was not to antagonize any of you and the fact some portray me as troll is absolute bullshit)

View attachment 1603

To add, I wish to have all roleplay during my absence voided because mainly:
1. R4 meta gaming (my ooc absence was used in roleplay to declare war on me, there were not any motives for war before the absence, really, any historical casus belli is not a motive to use it) 2. R3 power gaming (unfair advantage svedzko in relative to me, I had no time to respond to any of the roleplay post and ultimatum and therefore the war declaration should be invalid)

and this, but if the server is geopolitical then this invoke on rules is invalid:
3. R2 inappriorite roleplay
(common sense, rp posts fabricated to war while there in reality are no motives for expansionism. there is no rivalry and is no reason to even mind this land because it is so backward) 4. R1 roleplay etiquette intertwined with fail-rp there are no reason for expansionism and colonialism in the 12th century, war should be easy to have between two civilized nations but there is no reason to put effort in backward Pomerania the land of woods, witches etc. with a duke that speaks German and tries to christianize)
Adding onto what Coco said, for one I wasn't 'assigned' to this post, I made it of my own free will because I enjoy making events, I showed it to coco and he approved it. Secondly, I do stand by what I said in that argument, but I also say that a one-member nation shouldn't have to withstand the onslaught of the entire HRE (I know that it technically is one part of the HRE declaring, however when most of the HRE's main fighters will be fighting, then its basically fighting the entire HRE.) without any sort of assistance. This event was made to give you some buffs so that you aren't completely and entirely destroyed by the HRE. You still would struggle, and would have to get incredibly lucky in order to win, but you wont be completely destroyed and overshadowed by the HRE. And I understand you may likely submit, but thats why I added the Pro-peace protesters, to allow for you to have an option to get peace, if you don't stand by them, then sure its a little unrest, but its minor and will be insignificant in compared to the war.
 

Cocohop

Active member
Apr 16, 2020
135
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OOC: Note, if you do not respond by July/15, option 1 will be chosen for the first event, and *no* option will be chosen for the second one (no change).
 
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dropibus

Member
Mar 30, 2020
64
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Via church and temple loyalty to duke and support for any of the duke's decisions is actively enforced, the God(s) are not in content if there is against him because our Duke is appointed by God(s). By church and temple the 'pro-peace' ideology will be transformed to having discontent about the German aggression instead of making unrest on the duke's decision. International supporters for rallies cannot be found because it is 1100, there were no roads between settlements and information was exchanged badly. the merchant and fishers from Pomerania however that have supremacy in the baltic and pilgrims (literate) via land are spreading the sentiment that many people are rallied in Pomerania for support in any form - Pomerania seeks to defend herself passively and many souls share the idea that whether it is via military or diplomacy there must not be losses for our nation state

The duke is not publicly on any stance but prioritizes Pomeranian sovereignty and there must be zero losses in land and autonomy whatever is going to happen. violent protests are not given a halt whether they are from pro-peace or pro-defense side, but it is obvious that any on the street that are propagating and agitating the idea that people should be unloyal to duke will receive indignation in church and temple by their equals - the God(s) also will not be content with this...

event 1
I pick a combination of two and three, but it is more nuanced so read my text above

event 2
I pick a combination of all options, foreign intervention is sought by literate pilgrims and merchants and fishermen seek support from people that want to spread either love or violence to stay Pomerania sovereign, fully autonomous and not have any losses from the imperial germans
 
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Cocohop

Active member
Apr 16, 2020
135
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The nation seems to be in a state of unrest and tensions are high, however it appears that none of the anger is directed towards the duke, who is seen to have only been put in an unfortunate situation by outside circumstances.
((Event 1: No change in protests)).

@Wojciech Tabiś :

Pagan population protests for support of Pomerania!

The Pagan population throughout our nation has recently begun to protest for support of Pomerania, who is currently being threatened by the Holy Roman Empire, and now demand an official response to the conflict, many hoping for full intervention.

The Protesters are right, we shall fully intervene in this war!

Your nation fully joins the war on the Pomeranian’s side, however the catholic world may see this as supporting and being sympathetic to pagans. This gives the enemy nations a potential Major CB on your war.

We cannot afford to fully involve ourselves, however we may send some supplies and mercenaries to assist.

Pomerania is given supplies and mercenaries, this gives the HRE a minor CB on you, and Catholics may think you’re sympathetic to pagans, however to a lesser degree.

What's a Pomerania?

You ignore the protests and don’t help Pomerania at all, this angers the pagan population a bit, however it will die down when the war between Pomerania and the HRE either ends or is prevented.

EDIT: You have until 20/July (British Standard Time) to reply to this, or option 3 will be chosen. Additionally, in the war, only the following members may participate:
1673
 
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dropibus

Member
Mar 30, 2020
64
72
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Note:

I'd like to mention that ducal Pomerania is not pagan. My character, the duke, is a devout roman-catholic that was baptized back in Wroclaw in attempts by the Piast rulership to enlighten their nobility. His subjects are pagan but this does not make his rulership pagan.

This is a previous post of roleplay directly after I returned from my absence:

(literally named: Aid for roman-catholic missionaries and armed forces by Kingdom of Poland)

I doubt that supporting a roman-catholic duke remain in power is bringing any drawbacks in the catholic world, because in the recent decade the duchy of Pomerania was established it was an effort by the crown of Poland to enlighten the slavic people po morze (at sea, or, in Pomerania). Also, I assume that when Poland is joining the war, it'd only fight on Pomeranian soil because Poland has no direct border with the duke of Westburg-Brabant.

Honestly, in the catholic world (basically entire enlightened europe) it would rather be seen as obstacle for the christianization process by the duke of Pomerania Warcislaw appointed via his father and the king of Poland that on him there is declared a war. The fact that now Germans with their 'barbarian' faith are once again invading Pomerania is creating more hostility and tensions and it would take decades longer to christianize the pagans to roman-catholicism, the faith of the pagan's archenemy now

-> there should be outrage in the catholic world on the HRE's duke that he is disrupting the process of christianization by creating unrest among pagans in the lands of his fellow roman-catholic duke!!!! where is the pope is intervene??!?!?!?!? oh wait no the germans are the sugar daddy of pope!!!

conclusion: being sympathetic to a roman-catholic ruler that has the same blood (house of Piast) is far from being sympathetic with pagans...
please edit the event to make it logical and not via either hasty or stupid reasoning
 
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Cocohop

Active member
Apr 16, 2020
135
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conclusion: being sympathetic to a roman-catholic ruler that has the same blood (house of Piast) is far from being sympathetic with pagans...
please edit the event to make it logical and not biased via either hasty or stupid reasoning
I would like it if the word "Biased" isn't thrown around simply to get your way. The event will stay as it is.
 
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dropibus

Member
Mar 30, 2020
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I would like it if the word "Biased" isn't thrown around simply to get your way. The event will stay as it is.
I apologize. The word 'biased' has been removed and I hope for reconsideration because I've obviously proven my point with good reasoning on how this event is unfair because of the either hasty or stupid reasoning - there should not be any 'pagan' penalties for supporting a roman-catholic's rightful reign/
 

Cocohop

Active member
Apr 16, 2020
135
109
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I apologize. The word 'biased' has been removed and I hope for reconsideration because I've obviously proven my point with good reasoning on how this event is unfair because of the either hasty or stupid reasoning - there should not be any 'pagan' penalties for supporting a roman-catholic's rightful reign/
OK. The reasoning behind the pagan penalties is simple: If Poland wishes to somehow help, they are listening to the demands of the PAGAN protesters, which is why they can be seen as pagan sympathisers.